Curse

AuraofMana · Dec 05, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

The SS necro should obviously bring Spiteful Spirit and Arcane Echo. With 16 in Curses, it is advisable therefore to bring other powerful hexes as you see fit. My SS build has already been pretty much picked apart in this thread.

Because obviously you have a lot of time to use all of them. If you used 3 SS + Reckless Haste and 2-3 skills and the monsters are still not dead (and you have an echo nuker on your team), I think it's time to get a better team.

Quote:

if an Ele needs BR, you need another Ele...

Ele, other than in The Deep pre-NF running echo chain meteor shower, should not need BR. But you can't guarantee that and leaving in the middle of a farm trip (unless short.. then again if it's short you should be able to solo it), is not time-smart.

Quote:

Theres another point i was going to make but i thought id get laughed at. Someones already said it though. An SS can deal much more damage than an ele!!! so why should the best damage dealer have to make up for a less efficient one.

Because this is GW, not some solo grinding MMO that is all about you. It's like the person with Rez saying: Why should I bring Rez, my skillbar is obviously more dangerous without it - I shouldn't have to make up for someone who died.

Quote:

Invoke Lightning ftw!

<3 Fav Air Elite =D

Quote:

Ether Signet is great on a monk, combined with Mantra of Inscriptions and Signet of Devotion/Rejuvination.

Oo didn't think about that, thought you meant Ether Signet by itself on a character.

Quote:

I *always* run my warrior as full damage. I do carry a res, as any player should, period.

Full damage = No Heal, No Rez, all damage.
I think you meant "I bring self-heal [Healing Signet and/or Lion's Comfort] and Rez + all attacks", which is what most warriors should bring since your armor + health already makes you a tank (Sigh... I miss Watch Yourself =/).

Quote:

A lot of times when I monk, I end up being the only one. There's been dozens of times that a BR from a ranger or something has saved our team from a nice spread of DP.

I never said bring BR for the monks to spam it, I have been saying "bring BR in case of emergency", but then again, according to some people it's a waste of a skill slot but Rez isn't.

So... since your SS is so important that I must bring all damage skills/spells, why don't you list the build out and tell us why you would bring certain skills.

jesh · Dec 06, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Because this is GW, not some solo grinding MMO that is all about you. It's like the person with Rez saying: Why should I bring Rez, my skillbar is obviously more dangerous without it - I shouldn't have to make up for someone who died.

Full damage = No Heal, No Rez, all damage.
I think you meant "I bring self-heal [Healing Signet and/or Lion's Comfort] and Rez + all attacks", which is what most warriors should bring since your armor + health already makes you a tank (Sigh... I miss Watch Yourself =/).

We've been over this.. the difference is, Res Sig will bring someone back to life, and BR just gives whoever a crutch to lean on. I personally think that you can make room for BR. Whether or not you should bring it is the debate. I don't think you need to, and you probably should just ragequit if someone requires it of you.
I don't take a self heal on my warriors. Natural AL is fine. If I die, so be it. I'll know who to blame. (the monk with no energy management)
I don't take all attacks either, there are plenty of skills that will make you more productive than that, such as Flail/Frenzy and adrenaline gaining skills.. Enraging Charge, For Great Justice! and To The Limit! come to mind.

Phoenix Sebolta · Dec 06, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

So... since your SS is so important that I must bring all damage skills/spells, why don't you list the build out and tell us why you would bring certain skills.

Very well...heres my SS build i take for 5 man FoW. This does not count for ANY other instance, mission parties, sorrows furnace etc...

Curses: 16
Domination Magic: 9
Soul Reaping: 9 (i think)

The Stonereaper

Ressurection Signet
Power Spike
Power Leak
Parasetic Bond
Desectate Enchantments
Malaise
Spiteful Spirit
Arcane Echo

Res sig for ressurecting...I use it very sparaingly, only if the party is in desparate trouble. Will very rarely be used on anything other than a monk. I often make a point of recharging this at the Priest of Menzies.

Spike and Leak for interupting. This is most commonly used on monks with heal area or eles and shadow beasts if theyre left over. Good for damage (61 from spike with 9 in Dom Magic) and energy drain of monks (19 with 9 in Dom Magic).

Parasetic bond, ive a feeling everyone will jump on me for this and call me a noob. The reason i bring it, its a self heal for 126hp. Its not a very versatile one, but if i throw it out on a couple of enemies and they gradually die, it has saved my life every now and then. What it does is at least give me SOME control over my life. Obviously its no good if im being attacked constantly or i receive a heavy couple of spikes. but its the only thing that keeps me from putting my survival totally in the hands of the monk. It can also save their energy if its activated at the right time.
I will admit, i am considering dropping this from my build, so dont criticise me too heavily for this.

Desecrate enchantments. Is a good spike, especially for monks and eles. Monks in FoW almost always have zealots fire on them sometimes healing breeze, so i can do 85+ damage to one and all surrounding enemies for 10 energy/15 sec recharge. It isnt amazing because of the rechange time, but its a decent spike, coupled with power spike i can punch a lot of damage quickly on an unsuspecting monk or ele, not even casting SS.

Maliase, an unusual hex but let me explain. gives -2 energy degen for 37 seconds (i think) which is highly significant if youre a monk. It takes a spellcasters degen down to that of a warrior. Therefore reducing their capacity to heal and making things easier to kill. I have a way of taking down a single monk by itself. Malaise, SS, desecrate, then get ready with the interupts. energy will slow up, power leak will drain a lot and more will be wasted trying to cast. desecrate will damage it for 85 and SS will finish it off as it tries to attack me. I can do this if the enemies break up and theres one monk healing the group. Very useful technique.

SS and Arcane Echo are pretty self explanatory.

Im not saying this is the best build, any tips for improvement would be welcome, but i think it allows me to fulfil my "roles" and much more besides. It is also very adapted to 5 man FoW which is why i believe it does its job very well.

Hit me with your best shots!

CopperHead5200 · Dec 06, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

If you can't manage your own energy as an ele or a monk, then you shouldn't be going to high damage areas where you really have to. When I play as a monk in a decent party, I NEVER run low on energy because word of healing and dwaynas kiss heal for ridiculous amounts. With eles, as long as they don't spam high energy cost spells continuously, then fire attunement should be more than enough, it always is for me. I only have a low level necro that I'm working on right now, but it would piss me off to have to babysit other people who can't manage their energy. Blood ritual is a spell that allows lazy/incompetent monks and eles to piss away their energy and then expect a few points of regen to make up for it.

Cathode_Reborn · Dec 06, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta

Very well...heres my SS build i take for 5 man FoW. This does not count for ANY other instance, mission parties, sorrows furnace etc...

Curses: 16
Domination Magic: 9
Soul Reaping: 9 (i think)

The Stonereaper

Ressurection Signet
Power Spike
Power Leak
Parasetic Bond
Desectate Enchantments
Malaise
Spiteful Spirit
Arcane Echo

Replace Power spike with Defile enchantments (Factions copy of Desecrate), like you said, it does alota dmg in that area, but putting all those points in Domination for Power spike just isn't worth it. If you have Nightfall, Sig of lost souls > Para bond. Malaise/power leak?

E-denial in pve seems really silly. You got a big problem with bringing BR yet you got those two in your skillbar? =/ You're E-denying (barely) the enemy npc's (keyword: npc) rather than helping to maintain your human monk's energy (keyword: human). The difference between a human and an npc in pve is that an npc has a short life span of a few seconds. Really, save the leak/malaise for pvp where it has use. A few pve enemies tend to have special attributes and stats anyways - Extra hp, armor, massive dmg using a little wand, and extra energy is another likely advantage. If you want to interrupt, Power return is much better. 5energy/recharge, and the downside of giving the target energy, but it's pve, you're giving energy to things that will die in a few seconds and probably had full energy anyways.

Your build doesn't seem to have a special "thing" going on that could be more important than somethin as small as br. I'd also recommend Enfeebling blood - aoe dmg-reduction on attackers is pretty powerful in pve.

Phoenix Sebolta · Dec 06, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

enfeebling blood not needed, bonds take a warriors attack down to single figures.

I dont have factions or nightfall, thats why im only running prophecies skills.

the fact is, i DO NOT NEED to bring blood ritual, or should not need to at least with competant monks. Occasionally ill switch out res sig if they want me to, but it doesnt mean ill use it regularly on them.

9 points in Dom magic is a small price to pay, what else does a SS curses necro put that extra chunk of points into. dont say soul reaping, 9 is enough.

yes denying energy in pve monks may seem trivial, but ive tried and tested it and it works very well. Like i said, this build has matures over a long time and its very suited to 5 man FoW. Not only do i use malaise on monks, on a warrior it will give them 0 energy regeneration and on a ranger, 1 regen. This will deny them powerful attack skills like hundred blades and savage shot, which is really annoying for any spellcaster taking on shadow rangers.
power leak and spike are more about interupting than damage/E-reduction. They are both domination magic and are accessible with 12/20 sec recharge, not including halvs recharge 20% on my staff.

On the topic of E-denial, if a monk keeps healing the enemies, wont that prolong the fight? Therefore increasing the demand on my own monk's energy? So isnt E-denial doing the exact same job as BR, as in preserving the monk's energy. Only difference is, my way kills them faster.

I probably would use defile enchantments as well if i had factions, but there you go.

Titan Chrae · Dec 06, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Why does everyone talk like SS and MoP are mutually exclusive? Last time I checked they were in the same line and only one was elite.

I bring them both on my curse necro and they both go well with Enfeebling Blood. Everything else is situation dependent.

aubee · Dec 06, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta

Hope this helps

It does indeed. Sort of similar to a 5-man Tombs team except with an ele instead of a MM. Thanks, Phoenix.

aubee · Dec 06, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Quote:

Quote:
Theres another point i was going to make but i thought id get laughed at. Someones already said it though. An SS can deal much more damage than an ele!!! so why should the best damage dealer have to make up for a less efficient one.

Because this is GW, not some solo grinding MMO that is all about you. It's like the person with Rez saying: Why should I bring Rez, my skillbar is obviously more dangerous without it - I shouldn't have to make up for someone who died.

Again, so why doesn't the ele bring Blood Ritual? After all, this is not some solo grinding MMO that is all about him. What happens to the team if the necro is down and the monk desperately needs a shot of BR?

One thing I think I still disagree with Phoenix about is the need to take the ele as part of that team in the first place. I'm thinking that another SS necro or even a MM would work just as well or better and you wouldn't have to worry about some ele who doesn't understand energy management crying about BR. Plus a second necro could carry a second BR for the monks, eh?

But I have only been in FoW once with a group and it's been a while, so I'm not sure whether there is some specific need for the ele there.

Phoenix Sebolta · Dec 06, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Meteor shower is very useful and almost essential for knockdown and interupting monks. Althought it can be done with just an SS. Ive been considering the possibility of bringing an MM instead of an ele. Less worries about energy management and good for Barbs, another hex in the curses line up.

aubee · Dec 06, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta

Meteor shower is very useful and almost essential for knockdown and interupting monks. Althought it can be done with just an SS. Ive been considering the possibility of bringing an MM instead of an ele. Less worries about energy management and good for Barbs, another hex in the curses line up.

A second necro might also open up the possibility of using spinal shivers for interrupts on enemy monks and casters. A MM could also (if he has Nightfall) use Order of Undeath along with Barbs for lots of extra damage. Bringing a good domination mesmer with E-surge, cry of frustration, and other nastiness might also work. Like I said, I've only been in the FoW once other than a few trips solo farming the shore with my warrior.

AuraofMana · Dec 06, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Res Sig will bring someone back to life

IS

Quote:

a crutch to lean on

Not bring BR is assuming nothing horrible happens where the Monk runs out of energy. Bringing Rez is a precaution against someone's death.
It's like why do Backline people bring self-heals when there are monks? Because shit happens.

Quote:

If you can't manage your own energy as an ele or a monk, then you shouldn't be going to high damage areas where you really have to.

That's why teams use BiP?
BR is to use when something happens.. and how do you guarantee you are teamed up with a decent monk with E-management? Telling people to ping... and kick whoever lacks the exact build you are looking for will just never get the thing started - try Factions Elite Mish for example, you know how hard it is to get a team?

Quote:

Curses: 16
Domination Magic: 9
Soul Reaping: 9 (i think)

Quote:

, what else does a SS curses necro put that extra chunk of points into

Since BR isn't needed cuz shit wont happen, bring another Superior Rune in. Blood Magic = the shiznit.

Quote:

Malaise

This isn't PvP.

Quote:

Parasetic Bond

Most likely won't need a coverhex. If you are going to bring a crappy conditional heal (since monsters won't get killed that fast), why not bring BR?

Quote:

Power Spike
Power Leak

Spinal Shiver anyone?

There, you just emptied 4 skill slots and replaced 2 of those with 1, so that nets you 3 empty skills.
Bring Reckless Haste, BR, and something to keep you happy.

Quote:

enfeebling blood not needed, bonds take a warriors attack down to single figures.

You can argue both way really - sometimes enchants get removed, but it's not that important to bring Emfeebling Blood, just keep "GASP" BRing your Monk when that happens.

Quote:

Again, so why doesn't the ele bring Blood Ritual? After all, this is not some solo grinding MMO that is all about him. What happens to the team if the necro is down and the monk desperately needs a shot of BR?

HMM IDK? Maybe is because they have Mesmer secondary for Echo/A. Echo?
Ele definitely doesn't have long time casts of Meteor Showers... so heck, why not just give them BR right? And wow let the SS have a sword and go up front because he won't have anything else to do after he SS's a few times.
The MM definitely needs to go up front... I mean, takes like 2 sec to use Botm and heal.

Quote:

Plus a second necro could carry a second BR for the monks, eh?

Ever seen the SF 5man? Why the hell does the SS carry a BR?
And why does in 55/SS, the SS carries BR? I mean he is THE ONLY damage dealer after all, so he must use all skillbar for damage because that is the definition of a full time damage dealer.

You could just 2-3 maning FOW, it's slower but the drop rate > extra time overall.

My MM is too awesome... with Dark Bond and Infuse Condition and like 4 minions because I am a full time minion master... don't need Rez or Self-heal.... Monks can do that... I need all my skill bars to be efficient with MM because helping my team means giving them a crutch, and this is totally not a team game - cooperation means nothing, it just means I must lower my 1337ness so I can carry those noobs over.
After all, they should be able to do everything.

Carinae · Dec 06, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Not bring BR is assuming nothing horrible happens where the Monk runs out of energy. Bringing Rez is a precaution against someone's death.
It's like why do Backline people bring self-heals when there are monks? Because shit happens.

This is a false argument. If you die, a rez is necessary to recover. If you run out of energy, there are MULTIPLE ways to recover, and you are trying to necessitate that one particular class bear the weight of preventing that.

That leads to abuse of the system. It doesn't take long for a lousy Ele or Monk to be calling "I have 1 energy!!!" and all the Necro is doing is running around BRing Ele, Monk, Monk, Ele, Monk.....

It's ok to be the "Energy Bitch" if that's what you're signing up for at the start. But, clearly that's not what most necro's want to be doing. So if it comes down to YOU managing your energy, or ME managing your energy, I vote that you do it.

Now....... Are you taking about farming? or completing a needed Mission/Quest?

If it's for a mission or quest, then yea, take BR and live with it. It will increase the odds of success, and you only have to win the mission/quest ONCE and you're done.

If it's for farming...everyone better be able to manage their own energy. I'd only take BR if I had an empty slot and nothing I wanted to add.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

That's why teams use BiP?

No one uses BiP, except for The Deep or on Guild teams with very specific high-energy builds. Not farming PUGs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

HMM IDK? Maybe is because they have Mesmer secondary for Echo/A. Echo?

Do you have any idea how much energy management is available between the Ele and Mes lines? An E/Me has ZERO excuse for running out of energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Ever seen the SF 5man? Why the hell does the SS carry a BR?

I've run 5 man SF 70 Trillion times. The SS doesn't need to bring BR. Same argument, unnecessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

And why does in 55/SS, the SS carries BR? I mean he is THE ONLY damage dealer after all, so he must use all skillbar for damage because that is the definition of a full time damage dealer.

Because this is a specific team build. Not a random PUG where you get what you get. Apples vs. Oranges.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

My MM is too awesome... with Dark Bond and Infuse Condition and like 4 minions because I am a full time minion master... don't need Rez or Self-heal.... Monks can do that... I need all my skill bars to be efficient with MM

4 whole minions on a full time minion master, eh? Wow.

No self-heal on the MM? Now wait...your arguing that the SS should take BR to make the monks job easier, and you are running a MM without a self-heal?????

I think we've just identified WHY the Monks need BR!!

Phoenix Sebolta · Dec 07, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

This is a false argument. If you die, a rez is necessary to recover. If you run out of energy, there are MULTIPLE ways to recover, and you are trying to necessitate that one particular class bear the weight of preventing that.

Abso-friggin-lutely!!!

Effendi Westland · Dec 07, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Play with friends then you wouldn't have to explain why you won't bring BR to the group.

Also a hint for when posting: be clear about what you talk. Aparently you are talking about 5 man FoW ONLY. Which doesn't become clear unless you read the whole thread.

Maybe the way you run your necro is more efficient then others. I wouldn't know, I hardly do the runs your do.

5 man FoW?

Monk, Tank, Ele, Necro, Ranger - fast as ever and you won't need interrupts on your necro. Enfeebling blood and reckless haste makes this possible. Heck, learn to play without bonds and you'll be down to 3 manning it in no time.

EDIT:
Do you try to go for clearing the quests of FoW? Or do you just kill stuff skipping certain parts that are too hard?

Phoenix Sebolta · Dec 07, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

If its my group, ill clean the place if possible. Other groups usually only make their way to forgemaster.

Effendi Westland · Dec 07, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Good!

We do all quests when time permits in my group

But an error7 usually stops us when we get to the burning forest.

aubee · Dec 07, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Quote:

Quote:
Again, so why doesn't the ele bring Blood Ritual? After all, this is not some solo grinding MMO that is all about him. What happens to the team if the necro is down and the monk desperately needs a shot of BR?

HMM IDK? Maybe is because they have Mesmer secondary for Echo/A. Echo?
Ele definitely doesn't have long time casts of Meteor Showers... so heck, why not just give them BR right? And wow let the SS have a sword and go up front because he won't have anything else to do after he SS's a few times.
The MM definitely needs to go up front... I mean, takes like 2 sec to use Botm and heal.

Since you seem to be missing the point, how about the ele bringing blinding flash?

To be even more blunt, I see no reason for a necro to carry a skill he doesn't need for the possible support of an additional damage caster which the necro himself can out-damage. It's just a ridiculous proposition.

Quote:

Quote:
Plus a second necro could carry a second BR for the monks, eh?

Ever seen the SF 5man? Why the hell does the SS carry a BR?

On the better 5-man teams I've seen he doesn't. And if he did it sure wouldn't be for the ele as the better 5-man team builds I've seen don't have an ele in them. Tank, MM, SS, prot monk, healer ftw...

Quote:

And why does in 55/SS, the SS carries BR? I mean he is THE ONLY damage dealer after all, so he must use all skillbar for damage because that is the definition of a full time damage dealer.

You do understand there is a major difference between a 5-man team and a 2-man, right? And you do understand that good 55 monks doing 2-man UW farming don't need the SS to bring BR, right? I mean the UW can (or could) be farmed using a 2-man famine ranger and 55 monk. The ranger sure doesn't bring BR.

Quote:

You could just 2-3 maning FOW, it's slower but the drop rate > extra time overall.

As you've pointed out the FoW can be 2 or 3 manned. If it can be successfully done with only 2 or 3 people then one could ask why with 5 people and the team having 16-24 more skill slots than the 2 or 3 man does one player need one of the others to do energy management for him?

Quote:

My MM is too awesome... with Dark Bond and Infuse Condition and like 4 minions because I am a full time minion master... don't need Rez or Self-heal.... Monks can do that... I need all my skill bars to be efficient with MM because helping my team means giving them a crutch, and this is totally not a team game - cooperation means nothing, it just means I must lower my 1337ness so I can carry those noobs over.
After all, they should be able to do everything.

Apparently in your view cooperation is a one way street. Either necros are so uber they should be able to do their job as well as support other characters who can't or choose not to manage their own energy. Or maybe your view is that at least 25% of a necro's job actually is to support other characters with their energy management. Some of us disagree. In any event don't hold your breath waiting for us to bring BR for you. Now if you want to open up you own skill bar and let me pick one of your slots in exchange for bringing BR, then maybe we'll talk. But probably not.

Phoenix Sebolta · Dec 09, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

True, but cooperation is 2 way like he says.

If one character has to make sacrefices for another's inadequacies then the inadequet one isnt cooperating.

AuraofMana · Dec 11, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

4 whole minions on a full time minion master, eh? Wow.

No self-heal on the MM? Now wait...your arguing that the SS should take BR to make the monks job easier, and you are running a MM without a self-heal?????

Yeah for people who can't read sarcasm.

Quote:

It's ok to be the "Energy Bitch" if that's what you're signing up for at the start. But, clearly that's not what most necro's want to be doing. So if it comes down to YOU managing your energy, or ME managing your energy, I vote that you do it.

Again I am assuming you get shit teammates. For the last time, I am saying it's better to bring BR in case you get crappy allies.

Quote:

No one uses BiP, except for The Deep or on Guild teams with very specific high-energy builds.

Never said everyone now did I?

Quote:

Do you have any idea how much energy management is available between the Ele and Mes lines? An E/Me has ZERO excuse for running out of energy.

Oh hell yes I do, but I can't guarantee other people do?

Quote:

The SS doesn't need to bring BR

And no one needs Rez to be successful in GW, but people still bring it because shit happens.

Quote:

Because this is a specific team build. Not a random PUG where you get what you get. Apples vs. Oranges.

Then we can't really compare anything since everything is different in its own way. I am comparing Farming to Farming being that both team uses a SS. The whole point of team farming is to make it:
1. Best would be to solo, but if not, make it the least amount of people as possible.
2. As fast as possible - which means the few precious seconds (more like 20 seconds) you can save because the Bonder lost his enchants or Ele got rezed and needs to replenish his energy pool can net you more profit.

Quote:

Since you seem to be missing the point, how about the ele bringing blinding flash?

Now YOU are missing the point. I was clearly stating that just because you CAN bring something doesn't mean you do it. SS brings BR because he does not need all 8 skills to run to be efficient.

Quote:

On the better 5-man teams I've seen he doesn't. And if he did it sure wouldn't be for the ele as the better 5-man team builds I've seen don't have an ele in them. Tank, MM, SS, prot monk, healer ftw...

Don't know why he needs an Ele either. He said something in paradox about he, as an SS, being the ONLY damage dealer and having a nuker on the team kills monsters faster.

Quote:

You do understand there is a major difference between a 5-man team and a 2-man, right? And you do understand that good 55 monks doing 2-man UW farming don't need the SS to bring BR, right? I mean the UW can (or could) be farmed using a 2-man famine ranger and 55 monk. The ranger sure doesn't bring BR.

I was comparing it to another build where both has a SS in it.
Never said OMG YOU HAVE TO DO IT OR YOUR TEAM WILL Ph41L BIG TIME LOLZ!!!11!! You can say that about a lot of skills - most skills aren't required.
As for UW - you need to understand what we are talking about - I never said 55/SS is the only duo for UW. And Famine Ranger + 55 was never any FASTER than 55/SS, not having BR to start the Monk off and getting him out of tough situation was one of them. Those few seconds might be insignificant, but in the long run it adds up.

Quote:

If it can be successfully done with only 2 or 3 people then one could ask why with 5 people and the team having 16-24 more skill slots than the 2 or 3 man does one player need one of the others to do energy management for him?

Never said it was REQUIRED. Shit happens all the time - you can't guarantee everyone you play with even knows how to spell Guild Wars.

Quote:

Apparently in your view cooperation is a one way street. Either necros are so uber they should be able to do their job as well as support other characters who can't or choose not to manage their own energy. Or maybe your view is that at least 25% of a necro's job actually is to support other characters with their energy management. Some of us disagree. In any event don't hold your breath waiting for us to bring BR for you. Now if you want to open up you own skill bar and let me pick one of your slots in exchange for bringing BR, then maybe we'll talk. But probably not.

Sarcasm... it's not hard to read you know.
Necro is awesome offensively, defensively, and supportively. You don't have to be support to be amazing, but you can.

Quote:

Now if you want to open up you own skill bar and let me pick one of your slots in exchange for bringing BR, then maybe we'll talk.

I am assuming I am the Nec when I wrote those replies - after all this is the Nec subforum. I never needed BR unless something crappy goes on - like for instance, I just got rebirthed as an Ele and I want my energy to go back faster so we can get back on whatever we were doing.

Quote:

True, but cooperation is 2 way like he says.

If one character has to make sacrefices for another's inadequacies then the inadequet one isnt cooperating.

Check your spellings before you hit the submit reply button.
The cooperation you get out of this is - GASP - he's healing/dealing damage for you.
If you want to start counting in "if I do this he will have to do the same so I don't lose out" - count how many PUGs you meant that doesn't believe in:
1. Rez
2. Energy Management
3. Self-heal
4. Staying with the party
5. Bring skills that work with each other
6. He/she is not the omnipotent
7. What the goal of this trip is
8. What is his role in battle
9. What everyone else is supposed to do
10. Leaving in the middle of a quest/mish/farming/pvp screws everyone else up